Self Coaching for Your Creative Business - Clubhouse Discussion - July 31, 2022
Hello calligra-friends!
Life has been non-stop with these days and now the holiday season is starting to creep up so I wanted to share this conversation I had with Telisa and Doris (of Roessin Art and Love Lettering, respectively) on Clubhouse, in their Lettering Lifestyle room.
It was recorded over last summer where we chatted about my business journey, being a solo creative business owner, and my newest downloadable product available, the Self-Coaching for Your Creative Business workbook. If you're wondering "What the heck is that?", it's a workbook designed for all of my solo-preneurs who are in the creative space. These people have been in their business for a little while now and have started having trouble focussing on what to do next in their business. Maybe multiple opportunities have presented themselves, they've learned a new skill, or they're just not sure what their next step is. This workbook will help these people figure it out for themselves by self reflection exercises, questions, and prompts.
Initially I created this tool out of a need for myself with no intention of releasing it to a wider audience. I needed something for myself to help me refocus and find clarity because I had TOO MANY THINGS going on, I didn't know my overall goal anymore.
I used my coaching education and experience to create a personal self reflective questionnaire. I realized that other people might find some value in it, so I turned it into the workbook, Self Coaching for Your Creative Business!
If you want to listen to our discussion, click the embedded Soundcloud box above, or you can read along with the transcription below!
Conversation Transcript
Clubhouse - Self Coaching for Creatives
Doris Wai: So without further ado, I'm just gonna introduce the Lettering Lifestyle Club cuz not everybody here has been here before. As I mentioned, there are some people that are totally new to Clubhouse. Michelle down there. Oh, Michelle is here. Juniper Calligraphy Mary Jo Jordan, and Rebecca. If you're new to Clubhouse, welcome.
Doris Wai: It's just like, it's, it's a, it's a cool platform, you know? It's just for conversations. They've made so many updates to it. So just so you know, today's Chat will be recorded, right, Telisa? Yes. It will be recorded. So
Telisa Roessein: if you can't stay for the whole thing, you can always go back
Doris Wai: and listen to it.
Doris Wai: Yes, but originally when UHS and I started the lettering, lifehouse the lettering lifestyle, sorry, oh what I was thinking we just created it because it's a club dedicated to the love of hand veteran typography, photography and digital letter, and all creative adventures of the alphabet.
Doris Wai: So it's just a place that we created to connect and meet other small businesses and studios and creatives in the learning community. How, what, how I felt. I like, I felt like I was a little bit [00:01:00] lonely, like, you know, working as a calligrapher and having your own business. So you don't have colleagues and stuff to talk to.
Doris Wai: Right. And so Telisa and I created this space so that we can just have like topics to, to chat about and, you know, see what's happening in the industry. Talk about like our work habits creative projects and just like a place, like a water cooler. Right. And we do this every Sunday. We try to do it every Sunday at nine 30.
Doris Wai: Usually we like to keep our conversation short, so usually half an hour to an hour. When we first started, there was no such thing as Replays so if you're here, you're here. If you missed it, then you missed it. Nowadays we sometimes we do have Replays if we're doing something important like today, talking about to Erin about her self coaching course.
Doris Wai: . Otherwise, like sometimes we're just like, you know kind of gossiping about what's happening in the industry and spilling the tea about things. And so for those ones we don't usually have Replays. So yeah, like we're just glad that you're here and you guys could join us and we're gonna have a good conversation tonight.
Doris Wai: We're very easy going every Sunday. Like, you know, everybody is allowed to come up on stage and just, you know, offer their, [00:02:00] their points of view and their, and their input on anything that we're speaking about. It's kind of like a stage format. We are gonna just ask iron a lot of questions, but you can also ask there is a, a message room which is on the lower oh oh, which is on the lower left hand corner.
Doris Wai: You can ask questions there. Otherwise near the end, I can also invite you to come up if you have any questions that, or you wanna say anything to Erin, to and I so yeah, like that, I think, I think I covered it all right? Yes, you did. You did a good job, . Okay. Okay, great. Okay. So okay. So without further, do you, of course I want to introduce Erin Telisa is gonna, is is gonna is gonna introduce Erin formally.
Doris Wai: Okay. So welcome Erin. Welcome Erin.
Telisa Roessein: . All right. I'm so excited to have you join us tonight because I know that we're going to be learning so much from you. I have personally, so I can't wait for everyone else to learn from you. Okay. So [00:03:00] with that further, you, I'm going to introduce Erin Neilson.
Telisa Roessein: She is a Montreal based. 30 is something full-time calligrapher behind Neilson Letters, calligraphy, and a creative coach behind Neilson Coaching. She's been practicing calligraphy since 2015. She started her full-time professional calligraphy journey in mid 2019, and now is the current president of Montreal Calligraphy Guild.
Telisa Roessein: So I'm not gonna say in French , but if you haven't heard if you're in Canada, you might find those chapters in your region now. Anyway, so as for coaching, Erin went back to her university Alma Mara, which is Concordia University to pursue a coaching certification from the Personal and Professional coaching program in late 2018.
Telisa Roessein: Over there. She met some wonderful classmates, learn a lot, [00:04:00] and finished with her personal and professional coaching certification or PPCC in mid 2019. At the same time, Erin received her PPCC certification. She had the opportunity to go freelance with her creative passion of calligraphy. She didn't think she could do both coaching and calligraphy simultaneously as starting one business is tough, and she knew that starting two at the same time would've been more than she could handle.
Telisa Roessein: This is how Neilson Letters Calligraphy was launched. Perfect timing. Erin . Now that Neilson Letters calligraphy is stable, Erin has decided to put her knowledge to good use by combining her experience in launching and maintaining a creative business with her coaching education to help others in similar creative fields.
Telisa Roessein: And this is why we are here today to interview Erin about our coaching and calligraphy journey.
Erin Neilson: Thank you [00:05:00] so much for such a beautiful introduction. Amazing . Thank you.
Telisa Roessein: Oh my God. So, so excited. So we have some questions that we're gonna ask you for the clubhouse. And because we're only here for one hour, do, Doris, do you wanna start with the, the first question for Erin?
Doris Wai: Yeah, of course. But first, like I, I have to mention like, you know, for you to have these two things that you're really passionate about and then like to pursue it is just really, really admirable. But I'm assuming you're a self coaching actually really helped you build, to build your calligraphy business.
Doris Wai: Would you, would you agree
Erin Neilson: 110% ? Not even so, so basically, yeah, like basically I created this for me and then I was like, and you should, the first few iterations of the thing are just like a really terrible looking Google Docs of just like notes for myself. And then as I started using it in developing it more, I was like, I think maybe other people might find this interesting.
Erin Neilson: [00:06:00] So, yeah.
Doris Wai: I, I, I figured it much. So you were your own like Guinea pig right? When you were starting your calligraphy business. So why don't you tell us a little bit of about when you, when you started calligraphy and Yeah, and how that, how your workbook helped you with that.
Erin Neilson: So way back in the day about 2015 , 2016 in the winter my husband actually bought me calligraphy courses for copperplate calligraphy.
Erin Neilson: And I loved it. I was absolutely horrible at it, but I really liked the quiet concentration of it and the meditative quality cuz I, I worked retail and it was always so crazy busy. So coming home and relaxing and practicing my basic strokes was very, very nice for me. As I kept going and I, I kept practicing.
Erin Neilson: I realized like, Oh, there's definitely a niche and there's a business here somewhere. And then at around the same time, I was becoming like a bit unhappy with working in the, my retail career. So I was like, Oh, let me find something else that might be interesting. So then the coaching thing came up and then I, I loved it and I finished that.
Erin Neilson: [00:07:00] And then just the timing of things was a bit odd and I was just like, Oh, I, I think what I would like to do is I wanna pursue calligraphy first. I don't think I can do both at the same time. Coaching will always be there, but I feel like the opportunity for calligraphy is more present, I suppose. So when I started I was like, I would love to have a business coach.
Erin Neilson: However, investing in coaching can be an investment. And most people. When they're starting a business, don't have that liquidity right away to just really throw back money into their business already. You're trying to really bootstrap it basically and figure it out on your own. So I was like, why don't I, I mean I went to school for this and I paid money for my degree or my certification for this.
Erin Neilson: May as well try and let's try and self coach myself. And through trial and error and making like questionnaires for myself based on like coaching other people, I, I really found like, oh, this is like really helpful for me to figure out like my, the clarity of what I want to do, Figuring out my goals [00:08:00] figuring out how to prioritize things.
Erin Neilson: Cuz I don't know about you guys, but for me, I, I feel like I, I'm pulled in about a million different directions. I have so many ideas all the time and I don't know how to figure out, okay, what's important, what's not important? Cause if everything's important, nothing is important and like figuring out your goals, Like what I wanna be like where, where do I want this to go?
Erin Neilson: So, That's a kind of a roundabout way to going and saying like, it was, I basically made it for me. And then I was like, Let me see if anyone else is interested or thinks that this might be interesting. Hence my, the, the workbook that I, I created called Self Coaching for Your Creative Business,
Erin Neilson: I think that was like, I think that was, was at a complete, I think I maybe went a little too long for that one. ? No, no, sorry.
Telisa Roessein: No.
Doris Wai: Telisa and have wifi issues. Okay. But we're on light now, so we're totally okay. That was a really good thorough explanation and like I said, like kudos to you for pursuing them both in tandem, but like and being your own Guinea pig I have to say, like, I, [00:09:00] I printed everything out and I was, I'm going through it, Erin.
Doris Wai: Right. But like, like what I have to, what, what I realized is like, It's so helpful because it actually makes you sit down and think about like the categories and the things that you wanna like work on, right, And also the things that you don't care too much about. You know, so like, I'm, I'm going through it and I just have to say like, you know, it's, it's really helping me, like, you know, focus on you know, my my goals, right?
Doris Wai: And you know, what I'm trying to work towards. But yeah. At Telisa do you what, Okay. Your, you're up then.
Telisa Roessein: So okay. So half of it, I'm so sorry, but my wifi was so spotty. Now I'm on LTE so I couldn't hear half of it, , but I, but I think , but I, I remember you were talking about how your you know, your, your knowledge that you learned from university and you pay for this, you know, for the certification and now it really worked really well.
Telisa Roessein: And then you talk about how it [00:10:00] could possibly help with the creatives, right? Yes. And you talk about how you start calligraphy and at the same time your coaching journey. So . So the second question was about asking about the coaching journey, how it can help with other creatives. Can you
Telisa Roessein: talk a little bit more about that. Like how, like what would, what would they, if they look at your program, like what would, what would it be like?
Erin Neilson: So I'll, I'll go in, I'll, I'll, I'll give you a bit bit of my coaching philosophy, which it kind of will lead into what the workbook is. So the way that I was taught coaching, and I totally am on board with it, is coaching is not, it's not really, it's not therapy and it's not really mentorship necessarily.
Erin Neilson: Coaching is much more like I'm there to support the other person, and I'm going in assuming that the person that I am coaching knows the answer already. They just haven't had the time or the inclination to sit down and figure it out for themselves. So I'm going in and thinking of this person as a full, [00:11:00] complete person who.
Erin Neilson: Knows their life, who understands their circumstances, who already can, can do it. They just haven't done it yet. So that's kind of how the philosophy of the workbook works as well. It's, it goes in under the assumption that the person that is doing it knows already kind of what they wanna do. They just haven't sat down and given themselves permission to ask themselves those questions.
Erin Neilson: So, Doris, you said previously before, like you know, figuring out what you don't wanna do. So there, there are three main questions that I ask at the very beginning which is, what do you wanna start doing do less of and then do more of, So those three questions kind of help solidify your thought process moving forward because it's, it, it, it's a different way to ask the question of what your goals are. Cause asking what are your goals in the next five years is kind of a difficult question to answer.
Erin Neilson: But asking what you wanna do more of, what you wanna start doing and what you wanna do less of is a little bit less intense and it opens up your [00:12:00] brain to thinking a little bit more broadly. And it's almost more like journaling. So I kind of am taking what I would do in person with like an actual coaching session.
Erin Neilson: And I'm just trying to like ask those questions a little bit more organically within the workbook so you can kind of work through it yourself, like a journaling exercise. I hope that that answers the question.
Doris Wai: Yeah, that's great. So a, a good, what makes a good like self coach?
Doris Wai: How do you know if you are, you know, doing a good job with, with self coaching? Like, what would you say is some things, some tips that you can offer us when it comes to self coaching? Like you know, how, how do you stay on track, right?
Erin Neilson: So when you're going into it, you kind of have to know what the outcome you want is.
Erin Neilson: So you kind of have to think about it before you start, which means, like, for example, when I, when I did it, I knew the outcome for me that I wanted is, I knew I needed to have, at the end [00:13:00] of me going through everything was a a clear and concise. Way for me to organize my thoughts. I, cuz I was using Post-its all over my office, which was not helpful.
Erin Neilson: I would just think of things right on a post-it and be like, I'll get to it later. And that is literally very messy. Let me tell you. Talk about just feeling like a crazy person walking in and I just saw paper everywhere. It was very not conducive to working. So for me, I needed that and I needed a a long term plan of how to make my business sustainable long term.
Erin Neilson: So when I went into it, I knew that those were the two goals, the outcomes that I wanted from working through it. So the outcome and how, you know, you're being, you're doing well with the self coaching is if you are answering those questions as, as you're going through the workbook are you able to go back and think like, Oh, am I doing well?
Erin Neilson: Oh, what was, what did I want at the beginning? And you think about that. So every person is gonna be different for what they're answering for themselves, if that makes sense. [00:14:00]
Telisa Roessein: That makes total sense. And is there like some sort of like a, a timeline, suggested timeline that, where you are answering these like, okay, you're gonna do this part, You know, like knowing what your vision is and the next part is mm-hmm.
Erin Neilson: so I, I didn't write it in in the workbook itself cuz everyone is a bit different. But the way that I think about it is that this is not something that you're gonna be able to do in an hour. This is really meant to provoke some like intense and deep reflection on your business, which honestly should take time, right?
Erin Neilson: Like, if this is a creative business that you're in regardless of what it is, could be calligraphy it could be photography, it could be anything like that. Like I find that people who are in more creative businesses sometimes just are so bombarded by, by ideas all the time it's hard for them to give themselves permission to sit down and do, do a little bit more self reflective work.
Erin Neilson: So this is really built to take your time. So I kind of always suggest, I think there's four [00:15:00] sections. So doing one section at a time and trying not to burn through it too quickly is usually a good idea. For me, when I do it, it usually takes me about a week to go through slowly and like I'll answer some questions, I might not answer them fully.
Erin Neilson: I'll sleep on it, I'll come back to it the next day. And I really give myself permission to like, Okay, this week I'm working on my self coaching, and at the end of the week, hopefully I am, I have a good outcome. And if not, okay, well I'm gonna continue working on it to figure out like what exactly I'm trying to get at.
Doris Wai: Going back to it like because I did, I did take a look at it earlier this week, so I was trying to, you know, go through some of the exercises and I quickly realized that it wouldn't be something that's fast, right? So yeah. But also you mentioned the PostIt notes being crazy person, but there is a part in there where you're like, you can use Post-It notes, and I'm just like, Oh, I need to get some post-it notes, Right.
Doris Wai: So but yeah, so I did, I I did it seriously go through. And when you're talking about like, you know [00:16:00] Creatives being like a crazy person, like having so many ideas, like me being into my business like eight years later. I still feel like that even in this moment that I have too many things that I wanna do and I don't even know where, what, where to focus.
Doris Wai: Right. You know, cuz I, at the end of the day, You know, I, I always wanna just have a sustainable business and make sure that I'm gonna be able to live this creative life for the rest of my life. Like that is my ultimate goal, right? But all these ideas like coming, Oh, well this is a good idea and that is a good idea.
Doris Wai: And, you know, so I think that your workbook is really gonna help me like, kind of narrow it down to like the things that I really want to do which is like, Which is a lot, but in your workbook you did talk about prioritizing, right? So, Yeah. Yeah,
Erin Neilson: So that is where we get analog.
Erin Neilson: We're, we're pulling out post-its or scrap paper or , whatever
Doris Wai: you wanna use. Yeah, exactly. I don't know how you would do is scrap paper though, That's even more crazy than post-it [00:17:00] notes, right? If things are just fine and around everywhere, right? Mm-hmm. . So well, who do you think that this self coaching program is for?
Doris Wai: Like, do you think it's this? Okay. I know it's you know, already helpful to me for somebody that's like, like I said, I've been doing this as a business for eight years, right? So technically I think I've been self coaching, but I, I'm very not organized. Okay. So like, this is kinda like giving me a bit more focus, like, you know but yeah.
Doris Wai: Who, who do you think this self coaching program is for? Like I'll, I'll let you take, take the, take the stage here
Erin Neilson: Me, , the Self Pro self coaching program is for me, or people who feel like they're me, where , which sounds so crazy, but it's, I, I feel like it's for someone who's running a creative business but has just too many ideas.
Erin Neilson: And, but all of them seem super important and you are just trying to focus on one single thing. Or maybe you have multiple ideas and you just need to figure out how to put them all together so you can get to that final outcome, that [00:18:00] final goal that you want. I'll use myself as, as an, Yeah, I was
Doris Wai: say, I was like, what were, were there like a couple different things that you were, you wanted to achieve when you started your,
Erin Neilson: Yeah, so when I started, I.
Erin Neilson: Listen, I was flying by the seat of my pants. I was like, Listen, were contracts. Come in, I'll do them , and that's it. And we're, I don't have the luxury of saying no to things or figuring out what my values are. So when I did it the first time around also, it wasn't as complete as it is now too, the, the way I've thought through it.
Erin Neilson: But, you know I was like, Okay, like I wanna get followers on Instagram. I want to work wedding stuff. I want to do custom commissions. I want to do live events. Oh, live events are a thing. Let's do that too. And it was so much all the time. I never felt like I could focus on one thing properly. It would always felt like a, And then I was like, Oh, yeah, also, I need to make myself a brand and then I need to make myself a logo.
Erin Neilson: Oh, and then I also need to make myself a website. So I need to learn how to do SEO. And then I have to, [00:19:00] like, there's all of these things that were all coming all at the same time. And I was like, Okay, I need to sit down and figure out how to make this work for me. Like this. I can't, I can't be an expert in everything all the time.
Erin Neilson: So I had to sit down and I did okay, what is the outcome that I want from me sitting down doing this? Now? I'm like, Okay, the outcome that I actually want right now is I need to make sure that I have a complete website. Like that was what I needed at the beginning. So I was like, Okay, what do I need to do this?
Erin Neilson: And I was like, Okay, I need to figure out okay, what, what platform I need to work on. Okay. What works for me? What's a good price point for me? What is a good domain? What is a good name for me? What, like all of those things. And then I had went through and I prioritized, okay, what should be first? What's the second thing?
Erin Neilson: How long do I think this is gonna take me? And I did smart goals and all of those things. So then at the end I was like, cool, I, my website is done and now I can work on the next thing, which is, you know, getting my name out there. So it, it's anyone who really feels like me, , when we're going through that,
Telisa Roessein: it's all of us.
Telisa Roessein: [00:20:00] Especially when you just starting a business, like you have to do all of this stuff, like building a website, getting clients, and like learning social media and all that stuff. And this will definitely help. And it's like, it's the kind of the worksheet that you can always reuse. Like use it again when you have a
Telisa Roessein: different goal.
Erin Neilson: Oh yeah. I literally pull it out every six months now and I redo it.
Telisa Roessein: Oh, that's a good, that's
Telisa Roessein: a absolutely good idea to do like every six months. Go back to it. Like, what do you wanna prioritize?
Erin Neilson: Yeah. Because your goals change, right? Your outcome that you want. So always changes. Everything is always fluid.
Erin Neilson: And even if you do like a little, like a pivot. Oh, you know, maybe you wanna do illustration. Like let's say you wanna do live illustration instead of doing live calligraphy that's a pivot. It's still doing something live, but it's different. Like, okay, well now what do you wanna do? I'm talking to you very specifically, ,
Erin Neilson: which is why Michelle is here down there.
Telisa Roessein: She's a teacher. Oh, bottle painting. Like, I wanted to do that. I'm gonna, like, I, I already like, you know, got her course and then simultaneously. I'm gonna like, do your self [00:21:00] coaching course. How do I add bottle painting for ? How
Erin Neilson: do I do that? How do, Yeah, exactly. But I, I, I also wanna clarify too, the doing the self coaching thing, it's not necessarily a replacement for working with a coach.
Erin Neilson: And I don't mean just to be like, you need to work with me. That's not what I mean. But it's just, it is a very helpful tool I find to help out the people who are like, Maybe just starting out and they just wanna dip their toe in figuring out, Okay, I wanna figure out how to do this. I can't put the resources towards hiring coach.
Erin Neilson: Cause coaches are, you know, it's an investment, right? So this is very much just a tool to help people versus a complete replacement to using a coach. And if you don't ever wanna use a coach, that is awesome and totally fine. A lot of people work much better autonomously than they do working with someone else.
Erin Neilson: And that is totally respectable but it's just, just to clarify, it's not a complete replacement for coaching, but very helpful regardless. I think of it like a tool in the tool belt. Like any of the classes you guys take, [00:22:00] myself included, I took so many during Covid. Oh my goodness. But all of the classes you take, it's just yet another thing you can put in your tool belt and be like, Oh, I can refer back to this when I need it.
Telisa Roessein: You know what would be a good idea if you use the worksheet and have a accountability
Telisa Roessein: partner?
Erin Neilson: Accounted bill i buddies. We love accountable buddies. Yes. .
Telisa Roessein: Then you would be like, you know, more more motivated to like complete those and then like kind of remind each other like, Hey, you, you know, you wanna prioritize this
Telisa Roessein: Right. It's all documented.
Erin Neilson: I love, I love the accountability buddy idea. Mm-hmm. ,
Telisa Roessein: I think that would be like really awesome to do.
Erin Neilson: Mm-hmm. ,
Doris Wai: was there anything that, like any goals that you had in the beginning of your calligraphy and self coaching journey that once you got there you're kind of like, No, it's not for me.
Doris Wai: I changed , I changed your mind. I don't wanna do that anymore.
Erin Neilson: Yeah, actually very, a hundred percent. So I really was like, I really wanna get into the wedding, [00:23:00] wedding stuff and you know what, I'm not in the wedding stuff. . And it was, it was it was not necessarily on purpose. But every time I would try and sit down and figure out how to get into it, I was just not feeling it.
Erin Neilson: And I was like, You know what? I think I'm really, It's not for me necessarily. So if things come my way, perfect. But working within the wedding industry in doing calligraphy takes a whole nother batch of patience and understanding, which I have in short supply. I have it, it's there , but I, I don't know if I could deal with the wedding industry for four months in a row, not have any time off.
Erin Neilson: Doris, I know this is what you're doing right now, and girl, praise B to you, .
Doris Wai: No, I still have somehow, you know what I have to say, You know, like weddings usually are on Saturday and Sunday, right? So normally weekends are perfectly still open. Like, do you know what I mean? I still get to do all the weekend stuff, right?
Doris Wai: But [00:24:00] it's Wednesdays to Fridays usually are like the crazy times, but I mean, the reason why we all have our own business is because we wanna have a life, right? And we wanna have the life that we, that we want, right? So , I never go, I never book myself to the crazy, to the point where I can't enjoy my life and enjoy my family and do normal things, right?
Doris Wai: Like yesterday I played cards with my parents and they're like, I thought you were very busy. I'm like, I'm not too busy to not enjoy my life. Like, you know what I mean? And if I am that busy, then, then I. I'm not running my business properly because, you know, my business is not my whole life. Right? I want them to go hand in hand.
Doris Wai: Right. And, and live happily. And live happily, right? Like, I think but I have to say your, like, like I said, the work, the workbook, if anything, it brings clarity, right? I haven't completed it yet, but the, the parts where I've, I've, I have completed, it's bringing clarity to me.
Erin Neilson: Great. Amazing. I love that.
Doris Wai: Yeah. In a way that like, you know, [00:25:00] I, I never, I I, but the thing is you really do have to dedicate the time, right? You know, as busy as you are, like, I always have the thing of. Sometimes I wanna read a book to like, do like some self-help books, right? But at the same time I'm like, I'm too busy to read this book, right?
Doris Wai: Mm-hmm. . But the thing is, if you read the book, it might help you be more efficient in what you're trying to do, is what I'm trying to say. I think dedicating the time to completing your workbook will give you some clarity, you know, get rid of the junk that doesn't matter, you know, that is on the low priority list so that you can really focus on the things that are important and what you're trying to do.
Doris Wai: Right? So yeah, I think that
Erin Neilson: you said that, so you said that too. And you I mentioned the wedding stuff and I just wanted to cut in for, again, for something that I thought I was gonna be focusing on, and then I realized with doing this that I don't actually care about, and it sounds crazy, but I used to be really focused on Instagram.
Erin Neilson: Like very much like I would post [00:26:00] every single day. I'd post something new. I was really into trying to like grow my audience and then I actively was like, Okay, let me do this. But then I sat down and I looked at everything when, like during what I, the last time I went through this and I realized I am spending the time in the wrong area.
Erin Neilson: No client comes to me through Instagram, everyone comes to me through Google, everyone comes to me through my website, and then they look at my Instagram as an extra. That is not where I get the majority of my high quality clients. So that for me was a big aha moment of like, why am I wasting so much time putting so much effort into social media, specifically Instagram anyways, when that is not where my clients are finding.
Erin Neilson: That is not what I want. And I was like, Oh, that took such a burden off of my shoulders. Girl, girl. .
Doris Wai: Oh my god. Instagram is on everybody's shoulders. Okay. . Yeah. But it's, it's so good that you, like you were able to figure that out. Right. But that's the, [00:27:00] I think that's how we all met, so .
Erin Neilson: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing for, No, no, no. Like, that's it, it's amazing for like personal connections and stuff, but for me, socializing, for socializing me specifically, that is not where clients are coming from. I was like, Oh, I can just hang out here and talk to my friends. I don't necessarily need to, you know, make sure that I'm posting every single day and making sure I have the exact right hashtags, and that's not where my clients are coming from.
Erin Neilson: So that was a, that was a bit of an aha moment for me when I was doing it,
Doris Wai: So your, your clients are not coming from Instagram, so what is it that you found out that works best for you? And where, where, yeah, where did your clients come from?
Doris Wai: Like, let's just say like, oh, if you were just starting out, Erin, what were the, the things you put into place that you feel like helped you get clients if not from social media?
Erin Neilson: So the, the setup for me was, so I was part of my local guild and I, I'll say it in French, Telisa, then I'll go into English of yeah, I'm the, so I wasn't president at the time, but I was [00:28:00] part of the guild of the Société des calligraphes de Montréal which is the Montreal Calligraphy Guild.
Erin Neilson: So through that, when I went full time three or four different people within the same week were like, Hey, we have clients. We're gonna kick you cuz I don't have time. And I was like, Oh, thank you so much. So like that, I, I had a network already built in that I wasn't even thinking about until they were like, Hey, we heard you're doing this now.
Erin Neilson: Like, I don't have the capacity. Like, can you please help? And I was like, Sure. No, I didn't even have a website up , I had nothing done yet. So that was big help. And then so from that I was able to build a bit of a portfolio because I was able to take photos and put them up onto my website. Once I built it, then I dug deep and I did a ton of research on okay, website stuff.
Erin Neilson: Like, what should I do? I need to figure out, I need to put alt tags on all of my photos that are all like Google searchable for my SEO and then I have to make sure that everything is being like added to my website correctly. And I'm even just like the [00:29:00] name, the name convention of my photos is important for whatever reason.
Erin Neilson: And so I slowly built my way up to the first page of Google. When you search Montreal Calligraphers and I think I'm like the first or second search result. If you look, feel free to Google and then you can keep me up there guys. , feel free to look for me and click on my name. It's all good. But that for me was my, my big thing of hat was how clients were finding me.
Erin Neilson: They were looking up Montreal calligrapher or calligraphy Montreal. And then they were reaching out to me through the first page of Google and then they were looking at my website and then they were writing to me through my contact form after like reading a bit. And then I talk to them and I know not everyone likes talking to people.
Erin Neilson: When it comes to, like, everyone really likes emails, but I love getting on the phone with someone and just talking to them for 20 minutes, Not even just to get a feel. And then I am gonna give myself a little pat in the back. I'm very good when, when I'm talking to someone I'm not so good with emails.
Erin Neilson: Cuz I'm much better at speaking so, For me that was, I was able to [00:30:00] sell a bit my personality and then people were like, Oh, I feel comfortable with working with you. And then that was able to build up a bit of the momentum. But the social media stuff for me was only as important as me making connections with people that become friends.
Erin Neilson: But that wasn't where clients were coming from. It was 100% all from my website. I
Telisa Roessein: had to Google. And you're right,
Erin Neilson: That's the only thing that's above me right now is is the, So is the Guild. Yeah, it's the Guild and then Jodi depending on
Doris Wai: Yeah, that's, Well, you are in good company then, Erin okay. Being in the job.
Erin Neilson: Exactly. Hey, like that's it. Yeah, exactly. I'll take it. That's it. So
Telisa Roessein: I put up your coaching link on top if you all haven't seen, which is just, Yeah.
Erin Neilson: that's new. That's fun. Thank you.
Telisa Roessein: Yes. Because we are we wanted to ask you [00:31:00] how do people sign up for your self coaching worksheet?
Erin Neilson: Oh, oh, Well, if you go into my website, wish you have so kindly out. There's a shop tab and you click it and you can buy it there. It's right there. Easy peasy. And then, I mean, listen, if you, if you feel like after you do this or even before, you can also just contact me and we can chat for about a half an hour or so.
Erin Neilson: Like, if you were thinking that coaching is maybe for you and you'd wanna work with me, that's amazing. You can just, you know, there's a little contact form on my homepage. You reach out to me through there, and then we'll set up a phone call. Where we, you, you know, I can explain the coaching process to you and then you can ask me questions and you can figure out if this is for you or if you just wanted to ask a few questions, That's also totally fine.
Erin Neilson: But yeah, I have a, so like, I have like three tiers. I have basically have like the coaching, the self-coaching workbook is there. You can also do one off sessions with me if you feel like, you know, I just wanna do one and then that's it. Or I have like a 90 day program that you can also do, [00:32:00] which is 90 days twice a month.
Erin Neilson: We do an hour coaching call and you know, we figure out what you need, what you want, basically. Cuz I, again, my coaching philosophy is coming through as you already have the answers. I'm just here to help you find them for yourself. That's basically it.
Telisa Roessein: That's perfect.
Doris Wai: Okay, so right now we are going to open the stage if anybody has any questions and would like to join us up on stage. Tonya will do her regular bounce moderator, bodyguard, bouncing. You know, as a rope , she'll let you up. . , I'll give you the mic. . Yes, exactly. She'll let you up on stage.
Doris Wai: But I have to say to Erin, you know, like you are a special person Okay. To wanna actually talk to people on the phone as opposed to email. Okay. It takes like, not everyone can do that. Okay. So it's all about a personality wise. Well, like a lot of times I think emails are easier people cuz they can really think through [00:33:00] it, you know, be more concise and like, you know, you know, just with their words, I guess.
Doris Wai: Like when you're like talking to someone on the phone, like, you know, they just might ask you a question and you're kind of put on the spot. But I think , you do definitely think fast on your feet as well, but you're very well, like well versed and knowledged in in every subject, in all questions, right?
Erin Neilson: So, oh my God, It has to be
Erin Neilson: my ego. My ego so big right now, Doris, my ego is so large.
Doris Wai: You're so funny. Yeah. But like I've seen your organization in action in terms of the panic free not panic for pricing what is it? Pricing for profits, right? Yeah. We were trying to do this thing that kind of dropped off and now it's August, I can't believe it.
Doris Wai: And I'm like, What happened to this? I think it's in a hidden folder now. But yeah, hopefully we'll revisit it. Did you end up finishing with that that.
Erin Neilson: Almost done it. I'm almost done it, but thanks for putting on the spot fine. I'm just like, Oh, no, , I'm sorry.
Doris Wai: No, trust me.
Erin Neilson: No, it's fine, it's fine. You're calling me out now.
Erin Neilson: You're calling me out. I get it. It's fine.
Doris Wai: No, no. I'm calling myself out because I'm still left at that, at that [00:34:00] moment, like, you know, before everything, like the summer craziness started. Right. So I'm hoping I can get back into, and you,
Doris Wai: you just let me know when you wanna restart it. Girl, I'll start restart with you.
Erin Neilson: No worries. .
Doris Wai: I know. Thank you. But this is what I mean, you're, you are, you're very, very organized when it comes to your, your business and your fun. The fun stuff, right? So so yeah,
Erin Neilson: Thank you very much for the kind words, . I super appreciated
Telisa Roessein: sorry. Yeah, if anyone has any questions, don't be shy.
Telisa Roessein: Or you can also put it in the chat box too, if you don't wanna Yeah, that's, if you're more of a text-tovert then you can also put it in the chat box.
Doris Wai: Yeah, some people are shy to come up on a stage and actually speak. So yeah, But like I said, we're also friendly like literally every Sunday, like, you know, and I come on and we just have conversations.
Doris Wai: Today's is a, a a little bit more like, you know, formal and serious, even though it's not though, right? Cuz we've been having such a good time. But yeah, sometimes we have silly conversations and not all, and not always [00:35:00] business related. Sometimes it's just personal, right? Just to get to know each other a little bit better.
Doris Wai: So don't be shy to come up if you have any questions. But yeah
Erin Neilson: yeah, if I'm, I'm here. You guys have any questions? Coaching specifically or calligraphy specifically or business related or whatever? I'm an open book.
Doris Wai: I have so many questions for you, Erin, when it comes to, it's like, you know so when, when, Sorry, I did, I, I, I can read your bio again, but can you tell me when you started your business, like the calligraphy side of things?
Erin Neilson: So, yeah. So that the worst timing ever was in June of 2019, so about six months before everything got shut down, .
Doris Wai: But you, I know , I know who is to know, but you know, to, to say that you started, you know, at the worst time, but you are still thriving, Like, you know what I mean? So how bad can it be? Can you imagine if it wasn't a pandemic, what, what it would be like, You know what I mean?
Erin Neilson: I'd be the world guys. Kidding.
Doris Wai: I wouldn't be surprised. With all the Post-it notes with priority
Erin Neilson: I'd be surrounded by PostIt. My every surface in my office would be [00:36:00] filled with PostIt notes.
Doris Wai: You know, I think that for, in a way, like, don't you feel like maybe perhaps the pandemic, because everyone was all holed up.
Doris Wai: It gave you a little bit more time and a little bit more wiggle room and grace to, you know, like take your time on doing certain things right. So
Erin Neilson: honestly, the like, If I have to dig for a silver lining which is like, you know, tough cuz it's a pandemic. That it, it would be that there, there was more time to figure things out than fully jumping off the deep end with like no parachute,
Doris Wai: I think, Oops, sorry. Hold on one second. I think that sometimes not having a parachute is what's gonna make you fly . Like, do you know what I mean? Like, if you,
Erin Neilson: There is no choice. Yeah.
Doris Wai: Like, honestly, that's kind of how I was too because I knew that if I, if I, you know, got a part-time job doing anything else, I would just end up, you know, [00:37:00] getting sucked back into you.
Doris Wai: Just like a regular job, right? So I just told myself, I'm gonna give myself a year, right? And these are the goals that I wanna, you know, achieve and if I can make it, then you know I'm gonna carry on, right? Yeah. So so yeah, that's how, and likely like,
Erin Neilson: don't undersell how impressive both you and Telisa are.
Erin Neilson: Please, because the two of you honestly,
Doris Wai: I liking still flying by the state of my pants on a lot of days. And like I said, like I'm learning so much from your workbook, right? So because like I said, I'm, I'm still, my mind is still so like, like, oh, I wanna do this and that and, and everything. So anyways, I don't wanna take this time to say hi to Michelle.
Doris Wai: Yeah. Michelle has a question. Michelle ? Yeah. She has a question for you. Go ahead.
Michelle Clemen: Hi everybody.
Michelle Clemen: Oh my gosh. I, you guys are so awesome to Telisa Doris and hi Erin. Thank you guys for doing
Michelle Clemen: this. I really like the conversation so far and I do have a question about your coaching program. So I, [00:38:00] and there's like not really many opportunities for live events here.
Michelle Clemen: Is that something that your coaching program can do? Like, you know, kinda show us how to get more live events or how to position ourselves or even create opportunities for yourself
Erin Neilson: So, the way that you're asking that question makes me think that you're thinking more mentorship, which is not exactly the same thing.
Erin Neilson: So coaching for me is more like, let's say you wanna do more live events the way that I would Sit down and work with you through that is through me asking you. Okay. Like, cuz I don't know everything about your business. Right? Every business is a bit different. I don't know everything. Like I, I go in knowing that I'm not an expert in every single thing in your field, even though we might be in calligraphy fee, if that makes sense.
Erin Neilson: So the way that I would, would treat that would be more about okay, you might not have this, [00:39:00] What do you have? What tools do you have available to you? What do you think you can do for yourself in that kind of way versus me giving you the playbook of what worked for me. Cuz that doesn't necessarily work because I work in a different market.
Erin Neilson: Right. I'm in, I'm in Montreal. I work in a bilingual environment, so that's also different. I am, it's, there's not as many events here as there are in Toronto with Telisa cuz there's just so much PR that's going out over there. It's a little bit different in Montreal. So even for me working with someone even who's local, maybe they don't want to, you know, do live events.
Erin Neilson: Do you know what I mean? Like, it's a bit different versus like giving the exact answer of like, Well this is everything that I did, and then you should also do this too. Cuz that's a bit different than what coaching is. Coaching is more, I'm sitting there and I'm your cheerleader and I'm helping you move along through your own journey by sitting down and making sure that you have the tools that you need, but you're the one who is kind of driving that forward.
Erin Neilson: I hope that that makes sense.
Michelle Clemen: Thank you. No, that makes total sense. I knew I, I threw [00:40:00] a random question at you. You did so amazing at answering that and I totally understand it now.
Michelle Clemen: But yeah, thank you.
Erin Neilson: No worries. That if you go on my website there, the coaching model that I kind of use when I go through my sessions is there it's called the six What's Coaching Model.
Erin Neilson: And you go through that with me through every session. So we start out with what's the topic. So what is it you wanna talk about today? What is the meaning? So why is that topic meaningful for you right now? Then what's your vision of success? Then what is the outcome of the session that you need?
Erin Neilson: What is your plan? And then what is your learning from this session? And then through like, we go through all of those six questions every session and like through those questions, it sounds like silly cuz there's just six of them. But through various ways of going through those questions, I, it's so incredibly helpful to the person who is being asked those questions because most of the time no one asks us those things to force us to think of those answers.
Michelle Clemen: That's interesting. Okay. Now my brain is like turning ,
Erin Neilson: right? [00:41:00] Yeah. That's it. Like no one sits there and just asks you those things and actively wants to hear your answer. And I think that that's the beauty of coaching. When you're doing it with that way is that you're really there for the other person. Like I basically take my ego out of it.
Erin Neilson: Like it's not about me, it's really about the person I'm talking to. So at the end, if someone has a very specific question of like, hey, like what's the CRM program you use for like, booking clients? I'll be like, Yeah, okay, well here's the thing. But like, it's really not about me. It really is about me being there for the other person.
Michelle Clemen: That is amazing. Is it like these questions, are they based on your experience as like a calligrapher and.
Michelle Clemen: Nope. It's it's based off from when I was in school. It's from my teacher's book lifestyle, wellness Coaching. It's the, the basic, the six, whats that? They really suggest that that's how we go through our coaching.
Michelle Clemen: And I was like, Okay, I did it and I was like, This is the best . [00:42:00] Yes. I will be taking this word for my coaching career. Thanks guys. Appreciate you,
Michelle Clemen: That's awesome. Thank you so much for answering that for me,
Erin Neilson: My pleasure.
Telisa Roessein: It's like thought provoking questions that you, you know, like you kind of need someone to ask that to make you, I guess, organize your life better. .
Erin Neilson: Yeah. Well that, and that's kind of through those six questions is kind of how I made the self coaching thing too, right?
Erin Neilson: Like Doris, you said you're going through it, so I'm sure you see some of that in there. But the, the, what do you wanna do more of? What do you wanna do less of? And what do you wanna start doing? Are three really good questions that are usually pretty thought provoking for people.
Erin Neilson: I feel like silence means there are, there are people thinking
Doris Wai: No, I'm, I am thinking, I'm thinking like, you know, like, I, I, like a lot of my work is based you know during the wedding seasons, Right. So for me, like, I definitely wanna, you know, do more. Of every, [00:43:00] more, more like after, you know, the, our wedding season here, usually I would say is like May to September.
Doris Wai: As soon as October hits, it's like not crazy anymore. Right. And that's I used to do markets like Christmas markets and stuff because I design products and stuff too, which I still love. But I don't know if I wanna do any markets. This year. The one that I used to do was the one of a kind show, which was you know, it was like an 11 day shows, like so tiring and so tough on my family.
Doris Wai: So, yeah, but like, but in my mind I'm like, Oh, do I wanna do less wedding stuff? Like if, but even if I do, I'm like my thought process to like, but that's like a big chunk of my, you know, income, you know? Mm-hmm. , like, how would I replace it? Like the, like, you know, one question always leads to another question, right?
Doris Wai: Like, I would, I would continuously like, and it's not like I don't like it, I do, I love working in the wedding industry, but I just like doing other stuff too. But but yeah, like, I
Doris Wai: don't know how,
Erin Neilson: that's why the less of is not as scary as what I wanna stop. Like, doing less of something isn't, you're like, okay, maybe I'll do [00:44:00] a little less.
Erin Neilson: So it gives me time and permission to do a little more or maybe learn something new. You know, you mm-hmm. , you free up a little space on your.
Doris Wai: Yeah, definitely. Cause you know what, like Alec, even though like I am just a self-taught calligrapher, like, you know, with pen and ink, like the funniest thing is like when you see my my pen holder, Erin, you're like, What are you using?
Doris Wai: You know, like it's I use like the basic, basic like speedball, like, you know, like a pen holder.
Erin Neilson: There is nothing wrong with a cheap pen holder. I tell you. It's just the plastic flange .
Doris Wai: I know. Don't do it. I know there's such beautiful things out there. Okay. But I think, like, you know, my niche is being able to like, let letter beyond on paper.
Doris Wai: Right. So even when I learned calligraphy, I'll, like, I learned like Madarasz this year and my goal is to be able to draw Madarasz like onto, you know, any surface. Right. But I, Yeah, before you can do that, you must learn the techniques of how to actually [00:45:00] do Madarasz calligraphy before you, like, you know, wanna draw it onto something else.
Doris Wai: Right. But yeah,
Erin Neilson: Shout Schin by the way if anyone doesn't know she is, shout out to Schin
Doris Wai: yes. Like, she is incredible. Her, her, her calligraphy is incredible. I hope I can get to that level, but I know I don't practice nearly enough to reach that type of goal. But I mean, but I've fallen in love with it.
Doris Wai: And if you, if you don't know the style of calligraphy, you definitely have to check her out. Yeah, her Instagram is open ink stand. But yeah, maybe we'll give her a little bit of a shout out later on an Instagram or something. You can, you can check her out later. Cause it looks really different.
Doris Wai: Like her style is always really different. She calls it really juicy, it's a potential for like a big mess. Right. But it looks so beautiful, like what she does with it. So. Yeah. But yeah. Aaron thank you for you know, joining us today and telling us all about self coaching and giving us a little bit more clarity, myself included.
Doris Wai: So yeah, thank you for coming. Oh my
Erin Neilson: God. I'm like, Please don't thank you for having me and giving me a [00:46:00] platform to talk. I I'm literally without words. I'm never without words. . I've heard
Doris Wai: words. I know. Cuz you call people too.
I know
Erin Neilson: but the, like, seriously, guys, Like I super appreciate the, you guys, you know, being super supportive of like, me doing this and it's incredible.
Erin Neilson: And the, you guys are like, you guys, y'all are so great. Thank you, . Oh,
Doris Wai: love. Yes, of course. Like we of course as creatives, we always wanna support each other. I know a lot of people are like, Oh, community over competition. But really, like to Telisa and I, and you know, and yourself too, Erin, you're like, we're always like cheering each other on whatever projects we're doing, right.
Doris Wai: So, Yeah. You know, so yeah, we're always happy to support and just share it. Right? What, There's nothing like, it doesn't, it doesn't hurt anyone, so, Yeah. But.
Erin Neilson: No, it doesn't. And then I, yeah, it's, I'm, I'm a huge fan of like, listen, if I can Google it, so can someone else. So like, I'd rather just, like, if someone asked me, I was just gonna tell 'em like, what, whatever, what's it gonna do?
Erin Neilson: Yeah. Like [00:47:00] why, why am I trying to hide something like that? You can Google. It's fine. . I
Doris Wai: know exactly. Like, Business. And business these days is so different from like, you know, business back in the day. Right? Even with the transparency with pricing and everything. Mm-hmm. Which we have lots of conversations about on some, on the replays.
Doris Wai: If you haven't heard all of our conversations there are some replays that have some really good knowledge with some really good speakers. So if it's your first time here, you might want to go into them. They're kind of like little podcasts, right? But they're always about an hour. So it is almost 10 30.
Doris Wai: So we're gonna wrap up. But before we close up the room, we always like to announce what we're talking about next week. Next week's gonna, we're gonna go back to the casual conversation. We wanna hear from everyone, so everyone is, can come up and say to just chat with us. Do you wanna announce what we're talking about?
Telisa Roessein: Yes. So our next week's topic is kind of like a fun segue, kind of related to, you know, what we're talking about, self coaching and self directing. We're gonna talk [00:48:00] about. how to get organized , right? Because like, yes, . Cause like I feel like the self coaching is more like organizing your thoughts, right?
Telisa Roessein: You're directing and whatnot. And by the way just wanna to remind you again, if you wanna click on the link above to go through shop, if you're interested in getting the worksheet. And I see you in the chat rooms that some people are interested in getting the worksheet, so I'm so excited. So hopefully, oh, that I just saw.
Telisa Roessein: Thank you from Echo and Rebecca, thank you so much. Yeah. So next week we're gonna talk about how to, how to be organized with your business, with your creative journey. Whether it is a tool that we wanna talk about or like, you know the admin
Telisa Roessein: stuff, the creative stuff, or, you know. Yeah.
Doris Wai: You know what, I think like any type of talk, a shop talk with organization is perfectly fine if you wanna teach us how you organize your pens. I also wanna hear about that because I am very not organized . Okay. So so yeah, like, come, come next Sunday and we can chat about [00:49:00] like, you know, how you organize, you know, your inquiries, your invoices you know, your clients what your times.
Doris Wai: Yeah, your time. We just wanna hear, it'll just be a fun conversation as it always is. So we hope you can join us again next week. Thank you Michelle, for joining us for the first time. I hope you'll come back. And yeah, there's like Your Michelle of Juniper calligraphy she does a lot of tik toks where she tells stories.
Doris Wai: Okay. And I just get sucked into them. They always sound like something bad is gonna happen, , but then everything ends up being okay . So yeah, so that's, that's Michelle down there. But it's been lovely having you all here and I hope you guys have a good rest of your Sunday and a great week ahead.
Doris Wai: But yeah, we'll keep in touch if you want to suggest any topics that you want to talk about, you can always message to Telisa and I on Instagram. Yeah, we're always like accessible there. If you haven't joined the Lettering lifestyle club, there's a little green house up at the top that says the Lettering [00:50:00] lifestyle.
Doris Wai: You can click on that and then join our club. So anytime we're on, it'll let you know that we're having a conversation. But. It's usually Sundays at nine 30. So you can just like, I have a perpetual alarm for the rest of my life to remind me about that. I don't know what you totally said, but Yes, of course.
Telisa Roessein: My husband call it you're gonna go clubbing,
Telisa Roessein: every
Telisa Roessein: Sunday, nine 30.
Doris Wai: Yeah. Yes, exactly.
Erin Neilson: We're
Erin Neilson: we are that cool? .
Doris Wai: Okay. So guys have a great week ahead and yeah, enjoy your Sunday.
Erin Neilson: Bye guys. Thank you.
Doris Wai: Thank you for, for coming.
Telisa Roessein: Bye everyone.
